Bob Burg is a very well-known speaker, author, and consultant. He has been on stage and has a track record as long as your arm. He is the author of Winning Without Intimidation, Endless Referrals, and a brand-new book called The Go-Giver. His articles have been published internationally in hundreds of professional and trade magazines and, along with his books, are used by both individuals and companies to gain important interpersonal skills necessary for success.
Bob teaches companies and individuals how to apply and perfect two skills dramatically important to personal and professional success: Business Networking and Positive Persuasion. He has earned acclaim for delivering his programs in an entertaining style, while providing information that is hard-hitting, immediately applicable, and profitable.
BOB BURG: Hi, Ric. Thanks for having me on.
RIC THOMPSON: I am really looking forward to this. This is a lot of fun. I have obviously read your books. Winning Without Intimidation has been on the bookshelf for quite some time. I've just recently gone through The Go-Giver. Let's get that out there right now, everybody. This is a fantastic new book. You really want to check it out. It's a great read. Just go to www.TheGoGiver.com. Bob, you're passing out the first chapter for free there to everybody, aren't you?
BOB BURG: Yes. They're welcome to come to the site and download the first chapter for free to see if they like it.
RIC THOMPSON: I just want to add that I picked up the book; I bought the book. It's a great read. For those of you who are familiar with Winning Without Intimidation and with Endless Referrals, you know Bob has some incredible stuff. We're going to talk about some of these things here today to see if we can get you to apply some of the things that Bob teaches. He has successfully taught a lot of people to really ramp up their business results.
Bob, what's the best place to start for folks? We're talking about really building up the business results here. Most of the folks inside of the New Order Business School are all getting started. We're pretty new in the process, we've just started our businesses and, quite frankly, the results, the commissions, and the net profits are not where we want them to be. What's some advice? What's some insight? Where should we get started here to build things up?
BOB BURG: We realize of course, Ric, that one of the biggest challenges for anyone in business is running out of new, highly qualified prospects with whom they can share their terrific products and services. People get into their business by and large, especially small business owners, entrepreneurs like we all are, because we love what we do. I know that so many of your listeners just love their product or service.
They know it's going to benefit so many people, as well as help them to make a great living and lifestyle for themselves. They go through times when so many people are telling them no, they begin to feel as though they might eventually run out of prospects. The implication is, "Once that happens, I'm effectively out of business." Eventually, they ask themselves the most dreaded question in business, and that is, "Who do I talk to next now that my original list of names has run out?"
When it gets to that point, desperation sets in. Now, when speaking to a new prospect, you've totally lost your posture with them. I define posture as when you care, but not that much. In other words, while you'd prefer the person be interested, you're not emotionally attached to the results. As you know, people tend to not want to do business with those people who need them too much.
On the other hand, when you have that kind of posture-a polite, humble posture-people are much more attracted to you. The way to have true posture, or one way to have true posture, Ric, is to have a huge list of high-quality and qualified prospects and referrals, with many of them eagerly spreading the word about you and your product or service. That's actually the entire purpose of the Endless Referral system. That's why we set it up.
RIC THOMPSON: That has so many implications that I'm hoping to dig into here for people's business, whether they're offline or online. Taking online, for instance, everybody has heard that the core of an online business is that list. It's interesting to note that there are many finer distinctions. I'm stereotyping, but people just getting started here on the Internet sometimes forget that that list is simply a large collection of people and relationships. They're just not anonymous email addresses.
BOB BURG: You make a great point. When we talk about the Golden Rule of Networking per se, we say that all things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to those people they know, like and trust. It doesn't say that people will do business with and refer business to those computers they know, like and trust, because people don't know, like or trust computers necessarily, at least not enough to buy from.
You buy from people. You do business with people. You have relationships with people. Computers, the Internet, and so forth are just the medium. Really what it is, just as you said, is realizing that that list is just a list until you have a relationship built with them.
RIC THOMPSON: Yes, in many cases it's almost an advantage for the people who have offline businesses, who have worked in them, or who have had them because they realize that it is about the people one-on-one-on-one and going from there. Of course, online, sometimes that gets lost. I just want to be really clear with everybody that these concepts are critical in every business. We're touching on some universal business truths, as I like to call them here.
BOB BURG: Right, and that's exactly what they are. They're universal, which means they transcend a particular medium. You and I both have, in our businesses, built great relationships online with people, but we always understand that it's the people first and that the relationships are key. Can you do it online? Absolutely! Can you do it offline? Absolutely!
Perhaps it is easier when you can actually look at that person. However, we can also do it online as well. You can do it on the telephone as well. The medium isn't as important as understanding how to build and create those relationships.
RIC THOMPSON: Getting a little bit deeper into this, offline, people love to use the phrase 'word-of-mouth advertising'. That's where people are talking up your business and spreading that around to their friends, family and people they come into contact with. Online, that exact same concept is called 'going viral'. It's the same exact thing. Let's talk about that, Bob, because you've got some great ideas and some great things that people can do to encourage this type of environment or atmosphere.
BOB BURG: Thank you. It really depends, again, on the medium. Is it in-person? Is it online? Really, the principles are the same. When you meet someone, the first thing you're doing is you're recognizing a couple of things. One, it's really not just one person. That person has their own sphere of influence.
If that person ever ends up doing business with you personally to the degree that you can develop the relationship with that person where they feel so good about you-they know you, they like you, they trust you, they want to see you succeed, they want to help you find new business, they definitely want to be a part of your life-you're in the position to develop what I call a Personal Walking Ambassador.
Those people who develop these Personal Walking Ambassadors have a lot of people singing the praises about their business, their product, their service. Again, it all goes back to this: How do you begin and how do you cultivate the relationships with that person? Let's say you're offline; you're at a Chamber of Commerce business-card exchange, which most people have been to. They find it utterly worthless because all it is is a bunch of people getting together, having drinks or hors d'oeuvres, exchanging business cards, and hitting each other up for business.
That is worthless, absolutely, but that's not how it has to be. If you know how to do it correctly, there are diamonds in your acres when you go to a Chamber of Commerce event. There are diamonds in your acres when you go to a regular social party, when you go to a charity event, when you go to your kid's ballgame or the PTA meeting. The whole thing is if you're prospecting correctly-if we want to put it into the vernacular of prospecting-it's always apropos, always appropriate, if the other person is enjoying the conversation even more than you're enjoying the conversation.
If that's the case, they're always going to feel like they're glad to meet you and glad to be in that conversation. The question is how do we do that? How do we do that in a very effective, yet very genuine way? One thing that I like to do is just ask what I call feel-good questions. These are different from the kinds of questions we sometimes ask when we're in prospecting mode.
If we're doing this correctly, the other person never for a moment even feels as though they're being prospected. There's nothing fake, false, phony or manipulative about it. It's simply, again, that they're enjoying the conversation a whole lot. These feel-good questions are simply questions that by their very nature are not prospect-y; instead, they simply make that other person feel good about themselves, feel good about you, and feel good about the conversation.
The other great thing about this, Ric, is that it takes the pressure off you to have to feel as though you have to be hitting this person up for business, which is counterproductive anyway when you meet someone for the first time. If you'd like, I'd be glad to share a couple of these feel-good questions.
RIC THOMPSON: Yes, let's do that. That would be great.
BOB BURG: I have 10 in my arsenal, but you'll never, ever have time to ask all 10 during any one conversation. Anyone listening can use these next couple the next time they're in a conversation with someone. They'll be amazed at how attracted this person becomes to them once they've been asked these questions. Here's the first question. Let's say you meet someone named Gary.
Gary is a copy-machine salesperson. He's also a real center of influence; he knows a lot of people. Whether he ends up doing business with you or not, he's a great guy to know. He can be a person who can connect you with a lot of good potential prospects. Gary is the sales manager of his office-products company and he's on the board of directors of his company. He's just a good guy to know.
You're speaking with Gary, and the first question you might ask Gary, the first feel-good question, is how he got started in the copy-machine business, how he got started in the office-products business, or how he got his start in office-product sales. Here's the thing, Ric. This is not a slick question, and it's not a particularly clever question. It is a mundane question, but it's a question people love to answer.
Why? I call this the movie-of-the-week question because don't most people want to feel as though you look at them as being important enough that you would ask them to share their story? Especially when meeting someone for the first time, they're used to that person just slapping a business card in their hand and telling them all about what they do, giving them their elevator pitch and all this.
Here you are meeting this person, and instead of focusing on yourself, instead of being I- oriented, you're being other-oriented. You're saying, "Gary, how did you get started in the copy-machine business?" He gets to tell his story, he gets to be the star, and you're already, at that point, beginning to add value to his life just by the very nature of asking that question. He answers it, and you might ask the second question.
This might be, "What do you enjoy most about what you do?" It might come across more like, "Wow! You must have had some fascinating experiences over the years, Gary. Tell me, what do you enjoy most about what you do?" Again, it's not a clever question; it's pretty mundane. This question flies in the face of most traditional sales teaching or sales training, if you will, when we're taught to immediately find this person's pain so that we can tear out their heart and then help them with our terrific products, goods and services.
Yet this, to me, is so counterproductive, because number one, this person doesn't know you well enough yet to tell you their mistakes, to tell you why their life is so horrible and what have you. Also, they may not even be a prospect, so why would we want to make this person feel badly about themselves? Why would we want them to associate that bad feeling with us?
Instead, let's take the opposite tack. We find their joy. "What do you enjoy most about what you do?" It's so much better than saying, "Gary, tell me, what do you just hate most about what you do? While we're at it, Gary, how about this wretched excuse for a life you live?" Again, that's not going to establish the feel-good feelings toward you.
RIC THOMPSON: Bob, let's get into this a bit. I'm going to ask a question from a really skeptical, cynical standpoint. I'm going to put you on the spot here, but I really want to dig into this because I think this is so critical for everybody's business. Why is it so important that I get into a dialogue with my customers or my current customers? How is that really going to benefit me in terms of more money coming into my business?
BOB BURG: The one you're talking to now, Gary, is not a current customer. He's someone you just met at a Chamber event. He's someone you just met at a charity event. He's someone you just met at a social occasion, a party, your kid's ballgame, or anywhere you might meet someone during the day. You're not even at that point with Gary. That was your first conversation with Gary. I would even take it further in that conversation.
Remember, Gary knows hardly anything about you right now and about what you do. After you've begun to establish that rapport with Gary by asking him those first couple of questions, I take it a step further. I would ask him what I call the one key question that will separate you from everyone else in his mind, and this question is not one of the feel-good questions. This is its own separate question that I would ask only after the initial rapport has begun to be established.
I'd ask the question, "Gary, how can I know if somebody I'm talking to would be a good prospect for you?" This is a question that Gary has probably never been asked before, especially by someone who he's just met, but most likely by anyone ever. That one question will signal to Gary above all else that you're someone he would like to investigate having in his life. You're somebody who, by the very nature of what you're doing and who you are, says to Gary, "This is a person who wants to add value to my life."
The neat thing about it is you're giving him the chance in his response to actually help him to help you. Remember, he sells copy machines so he might say to you, "If you're ever in an office and you notice a copy machine, and next to that copy machine is a wastepaper basket, which is filled to the rim and overflowing with crumpled-up pieces of paper, that's a great sign that that copy machine hasn't been working well. It's been breaking down lately, and that would be a great prospect for me."
Ric, Gary is looking at you like, "Wow! This is a person who actually wants to help me. He's even asked me a question that puts him in a position to do so." You take on special importance in his life right away as someone who might be really worth getting to know. Isn't he looking at the person who asked this question differently than the person who sticks that business card in his face and tries to immediately get him to do business?
RIC THOMPSON: Really, in many ways we're talking about what is the easiest, fastest way that you can give value to the other person to begin that relationship.
BOB BURG: I think that's a great way to look at it. The Go-Giver, which you were kind enough to mention, is a book I co-authored with John David Mann. By the way, Endless Referrals is a how-to book and I'm a how-to speaker, I guess. John is a great storyteller, and The Go-Giver is actually a parable; it's a business fable, as they call it. I really owe John David Mann a million thanks, because he was the writer who really made those characters come to life.
I really have such great respect for his ability to write and how great he was to work with. We talk about five laws in the book, and law number three is the Law of Influence. The Law of Influence says that your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interests first. What's strange about this is that that sounds so counterproductive at best, and it sounds downright Pollyanna-ish at worst.
Yet it's so practical, because if what we're saying is true-that all things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to those people they know, like and trust-Ric, you know there's no faster, no more powerful, no more effective way to elicit those kinds of feelings toward you and others than to constantly find ways, as you just said, to quickly and effectively add value to their lives.
RIC THOMPSON: I want to build upon that. There are five laws in that book, The Go-Giver. I just recently picked up a copy and read it, and that book is incredibly powerful. I enjoyed that very much. Just on a personal note here, Bob, do you know how sometimes the teacher will appear when the student is ready?
BOB BURG: That's always happened in my life, sure.
RIC THOMPSON: That book definitely came in at a very right time. There were some massive lessons in there. I may have heard of them before and I may have gotten them at a certain level, but that book really just beat them home in a fantastic way. It really transformed some things for me mentally and emotionally.
BOB BURG: Coming from you, Ric, who I have a lot of respect for, to hear you say that means a lot to me. Thank you.
RIC THOMPSON: Thank you for putting it out to the world. Again, I'm saying to make sure you get yourself a copy of it, as well. The best place to start is just to go to www.TheGoGiver.com and get yourself the first chapter. If that doesn't do it for you, fine. Stop. If you liked that first chapter, go out and pick up the book. Let's get back to the how-to stuff, because we want to make sure that these things that you, who are listening, are going to be able to put into place right now and get things going. Going back to what we started the conversation with, maybe you're feeling stuck.
You're not getting the results that you want. Bob, you mentioned that's frequently tied to, in a way, a prospect list. I've already offered everything I could to the people I've already gotten in contact with. I need more prospects. I need more people. That's what we're talking about here, beginning that process of getting more people exposed to who you are and what you have to offer. For the first step, let's start giving some value. Let's start establishing some relationships here. Where do things go from there, Bob? What's the next thing?
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